Travel + Loyalty
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Travel + Loyalty
Rethinking Travel Bookings: Inside pAiback with Its Co-Founder Jason Lucking
What if your travel bookings could work for you, even after you click "confirm"?
In this episode, we sit down with the co-founder of pAiback Jason Lucking, the intelligent travel companion designed to take the stress — and financial regret — out of booking trips. Imagine a platform that automatically watches for price drops after you book and ensures you get the better deal, effortlessly. That’s what Paiback delivers.
No more second-guessing. No more fare-watching. Just peace of mind and smarter savings.
We explore:
- How pAiback functions as a “safety net” for travelers
- The surprising frequency and scale of post-booking price drops
- The tech and intelligence behind the platform
- Real-world use cases and how it’s changing the way we book
- What inspired the app — and where it’s headed next
If you’ve ever booked a flight or hotel and found it cheaper days later, this episode is for you. Discover how pAiback.app is putting power (and money) back into the hands of travelers.
Visit us at our homepage at www.insideflyer.dk or www.arrival.guide
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Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of the Travel Flour Loyalty Podcast. Today I'm very thrilled to be joined by the co-founder of Payback, a revolutionary service that helps travelers to save money automatically by tracking price drops on your airline tickets. It's a brilliant concept, I think. You book directly with the airline, you forward your booking confirmation, and if the fare drops, Payback will secure the differences on airline credit. No charges, no changes to your itinerary, and no risk involved. So to kick uh things off, um Jason, thank you for joining. Could you briefly introduce yourself, who you are, uh what inspired you to uh to found Payback?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, Henry, thank you for having us, uh thank you for having me here today. Um you know, Payback was um was born out of a personal frustration, being a frequent flyer that flies weekly, every other weekly uh for business and also with the family. We're we're big advocates for you know getting out and and seeing the world. And and as a team, we're really big advocates for you know just travel in general. So it was through the own personal frustration of having try to try to figure out the best time to book your your trip. Uh and I think that we all do it, you know, we see these uh these these hacks online, book on a Tuesday and clear your cookies and you know, make sure that Mercury's in retrograde the day before. All these different things, and and ultimately realizing that none of that was true. So let's start with the beginning.
SPEAKER_01:Uh what led you to build payback? Uh you mentioned a little bit about uh booking on a Tuesday, you saw uh some personal experience. Uh was that really the spark for for for that idea? Uh, and and how did you look into to uh to market it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there were two moments that really were pivotal. Um, you know, 80% of people start off with searching through Google, through Expedia for the pricing, and I was exactly the same. And I would go onto Google and I saw Google had a little graph at the bottom that showed me, and I thought, man, I knew I should have booked that trip last week when I when I when I intended to, but I wanted to hold out thinking that the price might dip. And so that was that was the first moment of you know real visual pricing dynamic. And then the other, you know, really aha moment was when my wife wanted to join me uh on a business trip, and she booked her or we booked her trip about a month after you know I booked mine, and it was, I don't know,$50 or$100 less expensive. And I'm thinking, hang on, how come I booked my ticket a month earlier and it's more expensive than closer to the time? It just didn't make sense. And so for me, the combination of the two was was was trying to figure out again, when when is the best time to book? And you know, two years later, we're ultimately realizing that the right time to book is now.
SPEAKER_01:So so basically you uh you were hit by the same things as as as probably all our readers are hit by, say, uh, when should I book? Uh what to ensure the the best uh the best price for this? And and and your advice is simply book now, uh, let the payback monitor the the prices, and then basically uh basically ensures that you get the the right price uh up to departure.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. So for us, this this concept of of trying to game the system when is the best time to book? Um and the reason we say the best time to book is now is because prices are gonna go up, they're going to go down. Um if they go up above what it was that you paid for, fantastic. We do nothing. If they go down, now that's where payback comes in as this amazing tool to optimize your ticket, to catch that difference between what you paid for it and what the new market value of that ticket is. So it's removing the guesswork, the gambling, if you would, of when should I book my ticket? And as I said, I'm I'm no different than anybody else. You know, I had these pain points like everybody else. I have a hyperanalytical mind. And so for me, it was wanting to figure this out. Now, pricing dynamics are based on historical data. The airlines price based on historical data. And if there's one thing that we know, history does not repeat itself. You know, September the 5th is different this year than it was last year, economically, politically, geographically, everything is different. So the idea of being able to predict when the best time to book, it just doesn't make sense. It just isn't an intangible concept.
SPEAKER_01:And talk about the concept. Uh, if we go into to uh to a focus on on the flight prices that drops and and your use of e-credits, why is you are using this rather to refund uh that is normally that what you see in the market today?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there's there's there's two different types of tickets that the airline issues, non-refundable and refundable tickets. Most of us book a non-refundable tickets, and we think we hear the word non-refundable and we think nothing can happen to it. And what can happen is actually we can take those tickets and we can generate future flight credits. Now, when I buy something or return something on Amazon, I put it back onto my credit card and I go to the grocery store and I am none the wiser that$50,$60 just got put back. But when my wife does it, she puts it on the Amazon account. And the next time I go into Amazon, let me tell you, I am so much happier. I'm happy to spend$60 extra than I would have before because I've got this credit that I didn't realize. And now that purchase makes me feel better. There's a dopamine hit, you know, at that point as well. So, you know, there is there is non-refundable that gives you this future flight credits. If you pay that premium for refundable tickets, then you will get that back returned to you as uh you know on your original uh method of payment. But what this is really doing, our deep-rooted ethos of payback is we want people to do more of what they love, which is travel. And so by getting a future flight credit for frequent flyers, that's the same thing as cash. You're going to use them on future flights. The other beautiful thing from an airlines perspective is that's gonna actually make that customer stickier, it's gonna make them more loyal to you. So now they've got$100,$150, whatever that figure is, and we can talk about the range that we have who've generated, but now you're more loyal to that airline. And tell me an airline that you can book a ticket for 150 bucks in America. It's just not happening, you know. So it grows the industry back to where it was, those pre-2019, you know, travel uh elements. And again, it's that deep-rooted ethos of payback, wanting people ultimately, yes, we want to save people money, but we also want people to then do more of what they love. We want people to go out and see the world domestically, internationally. That's really where our like uh a core exists.
SPEAKER_01:And and you mentioned something that's interesting, right? Uh, because you mentioned the loyalty uh and and the benefits. So keeping the money in the system. So preserving loyalty and the benefits. Is that something that that also uh fuels you in this solution? Because you keep the money in the system, you mentioned that, you keep them actually motivated to continue flying, to endure to secure uh loyalty status and so forth, and that has that also been something you play on as a as a part of the go-to market?
SPEAKER_00:A thousand percent. And I think if you if if you look at you know the world that we live in, which is this very aspirational world, you know, everybody is is is is planning their next trip. Where are they going to go to next? What do they want to do? People are planning these trips. So that that driver, that element of loyalty to drive, you know, future flight planning. Um, the other interesting thing from this loyalty play that we were that we were discussing was I remember a very early user from our pilot scheme. We saved him$25. You know, it's not life-changing money, but he called me up and he says, you know what? I had a trip that I was gonna book in Christmas, and I didn't know when I should be the best time to book. He said, I'm gonna book it now, which is earlier than he would have booked it. So it's growing that loyalty, it's making these people think, now, you know what, I was thinking about taking a trip. Now is the time I'm going to book it, and I'm gonna book it with the airline because I've got that$25 I can apply to it. So it's this really beautiful double-edged sword of loyalty for the airlines, but also again, I gambling is like it's one of the the best. We're not gambling with our airfare anymore. You know, we're saying I wanted to do this trip, I know I'm gonna take this trip. Why would I not book now? Why would I wait and figure out what the system does?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then you also can plan as a frequent flyer, right? That that wants to keep loyalty, you can plan and say, now I will book my next five flights. Uh I know they are a little bit ahead of our schedule. Uh, but when I'll book them, I'll get the right price, uh, no matter what, basically. So so that's uh that's I think that's goes goes well in that sentence. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And I mean I I was one of those guys who um when I booked a flight, I would I would put on Google Alerts. And let me tell you, my inbox filled, filled with Google Alerts, and I did nothing with them. Because is$25 exciting? Is$100 exciting? Do I want to be on the phone with an airline? I don't know, is it 20 minutes? Is it two hours? I I really don't know. And so it's that time to value proposition of you know what? Let me just book it. And in the as they said in the 80s, set it and forget it. You put it in, you set it, you forget it, you don't have to do anything else. We optimize that ticket for you.
SPEAKER_01:And and and if we try to, just rounding this uh introduction off here, if you try to explain the payback uh yeah, payback's value proposition for a traveler in just one sentence, uh, what should that be?
SPEAKER_00:We are looking to save money and optimize people's travel so that they will do more of what they love.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. I think that was a good round off for the introduction. So let's go into how it actually works. So so would you walk us through the user journey? Uh, from you basically have the booking uh done with the the airline website and and how uh you get the confirmation and how in the final end, hopefully you get some e-credits.
SPEAKER_00:So we don't want somebody to change their behavior at all. Frequent flyers predominantly love to book directly with the airlines. Um, so we only work with direct bookings. So you book directly with your ticket, you register to pay back, you can either forward that ticket to us or you can integrate your inbox, in which case you don't even have to lift a finger. We'll take that ticket, we'll monitor it exactly as you've taken it. Same flight, same day, same time, same seat. Nothing is gonna change for you. And so we're gonna monitor that that ticket for you 24-7. Now, when the price of that ticket drops, as I mentioned, below what it is that you paid for it, we use AI to create a um uh a dialogue with the airline on your behalf to get you that credit for the difference. Now we do uh we do use a blend of AI and human. Just for the simple fact is we believe that as much as we're a technology company, we're a service company first. And that means that we are wanting to ensure that nobody's tickets get changed in any capacity. So if there are any of those edge cases that people get concerned about, then in which case the human interaction gets involved. The other beautiful thing is you submit your ticket. It might be you as a lone passenger, it might be your family of four on that ticket. If it's a whole family of four, I think we've seen tickets with eight and twelve people on it. Anytime that price drops, that is applied to every single person on that confirmation. Now, those those credits will go to those individuals. Um, but that there's one confirmation issuing credits to every single passenger. Then at the end of the month, we will charge you a service fee of whatever we save you. We believe that the the right way to do it is only when you win do we win. So only when we save you money do we charge you a 20% service fee on what we saved you. As an example,$500 ticket drops to$400, that's a hundred dollar savings. We will charge you at the end of that month twenty dollars.
SPEAKER_01:And that money basically is coming. I think uh we we just need to do that a little bit about uh the uh the service fee here is that is an extra invoice, so to speak, that you have to pay, right? So you pay that uh to to uh to payback, but then you get the e-credits on uh on your account.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. So you're gonna receive a full e-credit into your airline wallet, and that's gonna be directly from the airline. We are then going to charge you, as the passenger, as the user, 20% to whatever credit card you have assigned. Now, again, we do this at the end of the month. It allows any disputes to be issued, um, it also allows some review process uh for everybody, and as I like to say, it avoids paper cuts because there's nothing worse than when you get a$2 charge, a$10 charge. You know, we try and do this nice summary at the end of the month so you can see that true savings uh over that month.
SPEAKER_01:So basically, what happens if there's no price drop? Uh, do you still get the service fee or is it just blank? Is it the no pain, no uh no no cure, no pain, or or something like that?
SPEAKER_00:1000%. If the price of your ticket only goes in one direction, and if that direction is up, we don't touch your ticket. We are not interested in upward movement, we're only interested in downward movement. Now, that ticket might drop once, it might drop twice, and we've seen drops as many as eight times on a single ticket. Now, those tickets might have been a$10 drop, a$50 drop, an accumulation of series of drops, but every single time that ticket drops, we will optimize that ticket uh again and again and again.
SPEAKER_01:So that's basically uh very interesting. It's free uh for for for us passengers to actually to use your service because you are you're not you're monitoring 24-7, right? Uh that's what you said. Uh by some kind of AI and automations, you are continuously monitoring that. Uh and and basically it's only uh payable if uh if I get money out of it, uh and savings out of it.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. If the price goes up, nothing happens, no service fee. If the price goes down, we'll charge that 20%. And you bring up a really interesting point there with the 24-7. We we have cases where international customers they might be asleep at 3 in the morning, they might be in a board meeting at 3 in the afternoon. We've seen price drops happen for a single hour, we've seen them drop for you know a series of days, and so in both of those, we capture them when you don't have the time to, or again, you might be sleeping, whatever it might be. But if the price goes up, nothing's changing with your ticket.
SPEAKER_01:That's really interesting. And and and as I can see on your webpage, you support uh Delta, American, Alaska, and United right now. Um, how did you establish uh these uh connections and and how does it technically work uh in in that sense, uh, monitoring? Is it via an agreement with the airlines, APIs? Are you looking into booking systems or how does it work?
SPEAKER_00:We work with the uh the big airlines, Delta, American, United, Alaska. And we're looking at adding some additional airlines to that roster as well. So focusing on on those main carriers that have this zero change fee policy. Uh it's all within the airlines policy. We've we've not created this policy. Similarly, we didn't create dynamic pricing. That that that happened in the 80s. So we're focused on the big US American airlines that the direct bookings, it's American, Delta, United, Alaska, uh, and there are more to come um in the near future as well.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. And then of course, uh, looking at our readers, uh, that also comes from from Europe, uh, is it something in a market that you would go into uh if if the same uh conditions apply for some of the major uh airlines in in Europe?
SPEAKER_00:So to so two parts to answer that question for you. One is is kind of does it work for international travel as well? A thousand percent would be that for those international listeners, um provided that they are booking through one of those American uh service uh companies. The second one is would we expand to a European market with European carriers? I guess this could be a shout-out to any European carriers that are listening to out to us, but the second one would be yes, definitely and totally, and it is something that we are looking at in the future as well. Now, every country has its own set of rules and policies, but but we we know that we are building um uh loyalty for airlines, and that is one thing that is a huge caveat for airlines right now. Um, you know, we're seeing we're seeing the decline of a number of different airlines right now, um, as they're scrambling to figure out um what their players and loyalty is such a pivotal element for retention, for repurchasing. So, from a European perspective, 1000%, we are potentially starting conversations with some international carriers, uh, which was a very exciting conversation that's been had in the last couple of days. So we'll see what comes of that. But we know that these airlines that are all fighting for market share, that are all fighting for a specific customer, a specific customer base, um competing routes, that payback really ends up providing uh a strength and loyalty for these airlines.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but also security, right? Because the unique selling point here is if they are payback enabled uh service-wise, then it's it's it's uh it's it's secure to book at the airline now uh in its travel of three, six months ahead, because you are secured the lowest price. You don't have to wait. So if the price drop, you get your uh your refund in credits, e-credits, and you're secured that. So basically, from from a it's a unique selling point from the airlines to go in on the market as as I can see. There's no uh no better communication in in that sense.
SPEAKER_00:So from so you're you're completely correct. From the airlines perspective, it is actually a huge revenue element as well, because now when people are booking earlier, it allows you to control your revenue uh pricing models a lot better. Um as as as well as there's there's a double-edged sword. Loyalty and revenue are the two are the two caveats here. The sooner you book, the better it is for the airlines. Um it makes you more loyal, it makes you more tangible uh, you know, with that product.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and as as we know the industry, right? The cash flow is uh is important. So they secure the cash flow much earlier uh in uh in early booking. So so they definitely want that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, to to that point, not only does it secure cash flow earlier, but a future flight credit that is held with the airline remains as a liability on their books, which you got one of two options. You can use it or you can lose it. You can either add more money to that credit, which is only further revenue for the airlines, or don't use it and let the airline keep the money. There's no loss to the airline now from that perspective. It's only upside for them.
SPEAKER_01:And if we then look a little bit about the user interface, so so how travelers are tracking their booking and the price history, the alerts, uh uh some customizations, uh how how how little uh price drop uh is needed before you make the rebooking and so forth. Is that something that that uh you can talk a little bit about so so the the potential new uh uh users of uh of Payback can uh can get an idea?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we really want to create some transparency to your own individual flights. We're not here to you know out the market on on full dynamic pricing, but when you have a specific flight from an analytical perspective, I want to know what is happening to that flight all day, every day, if I could. So by providing real-time live graph uh graphs on our website allows people to see where their pricing uh was monitored and and where it moved around. Um again, you can you can make those adjustments um how how frequently you want your emails, whether you want text messages, so on and so forth. We we know that people we're fighting for inbox interspace. Uh you know, we're fighting for um cell phone uh wallpaper space, so to speak. So we don't want to bug people, um, but we want to make sure that they are alerted to every little nuance that they that they can have with it. The the other interesting thing is it's interesting for people to be able to see what their price of their ticket ended up doing, how it actually moved and varied. I think that that's something that frequent flyers really, really enjoy and really want to know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh definitely. I I think uh I would uh have it as a as a widget on my phone to follow it real time, uh so to speak. Uh moving a little bit into to some challenges and and how you uh have have seen the market fit. What is the biggest challenge so far? Is it uh recontrary? Is it airline corporation? Uh is it uh dynamic pricing? Uh where do you see the biggest challenge right now?
SPEAKER_00:I think that there's there's two at two at two lunch points. We're still a relatively young company, and with that comes a trust element. Um, you know, we're security certified, we want to make sure that everybody's data is protected, um, all credit cards are held by third parties, so we're in we're hands off on it, it's secured is secured by that. So trust is the first thing. The other part is education. Most people, even frequent flyers, don't know that they can make adjustments on their ticket. And so it's this big education side that we are really uh creating here as well for people. That's been our big two links bins. The moment that somebody receives a price drop, we end up receiving a five to seven X on bookings from that particular person um within a six month period. So again, it's a trust thing. We know that people want to try us as we become the more trusted, become the trusted name in the industry for it as um as we continue to grow. That will, you know, god forbid, we ever thought about putting our credit card details onto Amazon. And now look at us, you know, we we sign into everything with Facebook and Amazon. So um the trust is one part, the education side um is another as well. And to that, to that little caveat, people think that they can send any ticket. There is one ticket that we cannot monitor, and that is the basic economy ticket, you know, and that kind of comes with the bare bones uh element as well. And so when we have a basic economy ticket, there's nothing that can be changed or done with it. It's anything above basic. So again, it's these little nuances for people to realize that uh it's it always sounds good, the basic economy. But we end up booking, we end up monitoring tickets. Usually that one fare above ends up dropping below what it is that you would have paid for a basic economy.
SPEAKER_01:And that also helps again from from the real frequent flyers that uh you also typically get a little bit more miles out of uh out of the higher fares. Uh so it it can be a good business case, especially on that. Uh so looking into uh yeah, continue please.
SPEAKER_00:No, from the airlines perspective, totally. That's it's much better for the airlines as well. They, you know, basic economy was largely generated to compete against some of those budget airlines, um, and and we're seeing some of those having to restructure their business model or or or or a little bit of scrambling going on right now. And so booking that one fairer class above, it can sometimes sting by another 30 or 40 dollars. But with payback, we end up finding that it actually will probably drop below what that basic economy is. And and maybe I haven't mentioned this as well. I think it might be warranted to mention maybe in this section, maybe at another time, but 60% of the time the price dropped below what somebody originally paid for. So we're seeing over one in two use cases of these tickets moving. Now, the average savings that we see across all fair classes is 30%. Now, if you if you aggregate that across all of them, that average is$250 per savings. That's significant.
SPEAKER_01:It's uh it's nice to see your credits uh if you let's say fly uh 10, 15, 20 times a year uh on an airline, uh then uh then there should be some good savings coming into uh into uh into the e-credits, uh into your wallet on the airline. So um interesting use case actually. You you mentioned a little bit about your young company. So so the biggest surprise that you have since the launch, uh, is there a moment uh of uh of highlight uh a specific uh milestone uh that uh that you especially looking for that for surprise?
SPEAKER_00:Well, like I come from a luxury service industry background where I know every single person that would walk through the door and I would interact with. For me, it has been an amazing use case to see such growth of users. Um whether it's people referring to us uh organically, whether it's people writing to us and telling us how amazing this service is, those elements I think are humbling to us, and we don't uh we don't discount uh how much uh trust people are willing to put in us for this as well. We know that people's flights are usually uh a very important part for them. So for me, it is the the human component of it that has been so so beautiful to see, whether it's been direct conversation or whether it's been through exchanges, uh through our reviews or through you know sharing through social media. I think that has been uh I think that has been a really interesting case for us.
SPEAKER_01:And of course, we we cannot uh avoid this question, Jason. Competition. We know there is other uh price uh tracking solutions or tools out there. You of course you benchmark that, but but what sets uh payback apart from that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, when you look at competition, um you know, we we've we put this out into the interwebs, and and the initial thing everybody came back with was, well, why wouldn't you just set up a Google Alert? You know, I said as we mentioned earlier, I set up a Google Alert, you know, that they're contained as a competitor, but for me, I don't want a Google alert. It's gonna fill my inbox up. It's about the automation element. Now there are other obviously other players that are coming to the market. One thing that we know as a company that we do and we strive to ensure this is we stay well within the parameters of uh efficacy and policy for the airlines. It comes in in terms of how we collect the data, on how we interact with that data, and how we market ourselves as well. As mentioned, competitors are gonna come and go, it's going to happen. I actually was more excited when we saw our first few competitors because it told us that what we were doing was right, which is an entrepreneur, you obviously want uh that little bit of boost, but also the more the more competitors that that that have come around, you know, it is only further education for. For this being something that can be done. Now, we hope that we can, you know, continue to be a market leader in this space. We've got some exciting developments that are coming forward. Uh, partnerships as well. So I, you know, I'm I'm here for competition. Competition is healthy.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely it is. We have seen that, and also it helps a little bit on on putting uh pressure on the airlines, of course, to to uh give you better access, I suppose, in in in systems-wise. But looking to the future, um, so let's look ahead. Where is payback in in three to five years from now?
SPEAKER_00:We've got big plans. I think that any company should have big vision plans. Right now, we're really rooted in the aviation space and really solidifying ourselves as the uh preeminent player in the market. We're looking at other travel adjacent markets. Um we know that there is a little bit more fracture in some of those hotels, car rental. Um, we're also seeing dynamic pricing exist in other consumer spaces. We won't allude to too much because we think that it's uh a future play for us. If you know uh dynamic pricing, you you may have seen it occurring, in which case, um, you know, heck heck to you. It just it's the manual lift. So we see a series of growth elements for us, both in travel adjacent spaces as well as geographically. We see ourselves moving into uh bigger market as well.
SPEAKER_01:Uh personal wish for me is is definitely hotels, uh, the big hotel chains and and their dynamic pricing. So that uh that I can wish for Christmas that you're moving into that space uh in in in some kind of future. Um so we talk we have talked about the the the big four in in the US market, and you have mentioned that you're also looking uh outside US and to more partners in that sense. So really exciting there. So any exciting features on the roadmap? Uh upgrades, uh predictive analytics, uh, a premium membership perhaps with more benefits or personal services or anything in that sense. Uh can can you uh can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so so what's next on the roadmap has largely been driven by what we've asked that customers want. Uh we we survey them to ensure that that we're giving them what it is that they're asking for. And what they are wanting is for us to to move into um you know some awards programs as well. Um and and that is the the next big thing that's really coming for us as well. Um again, looking at some uh some integrations as well, as well as some partnerships, uh premium, premium service models. I think we will be seeing one of those in the next three to six months as well.
SPEAKER_01:So that's uh that's a good teaser for watching out on the on that space. So you mentioned a little bit about competition um and how that is evolving. Um so have you also considered the partnership with uh specific travel agencies or some of the big uh platforms around? Or are you trying to be uh more independent?
SPEAKER_00:We're here to talk out of both sides of our mouth. We are here to be here for direct-to-consumer, and we're also building our business-to-business side as well. Building a powered by payback model for independent travel agents is really at the top of uh our list. Um as well as other travel planners, and I and I phrase it that way because these people aren't specifically travel agents. Um, so we're building out a series of programs um that allow that allow for that. Now, looking at some of the TMCs, you know, some of those are kind of a little locked up in a different way. Um, we're starting conversations with some and we'll see where those evolve. Um right now, our real focus is to better for our direct consumers, is to grow some of our B2B um uh projects and markets, um, but ultimately we just want to figure out a way for people to do more of what they love.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's uh that I think that summers up it it's quite uh quite beautiful here uh on also on your one-liner uh earlier in in our talks. But if there's it's some kind of uh entrepreneurship or people out there wanting to uh to continue into travel tech, follow your your good uh your good uh journey here. What uh what kind of lessons uh and offer uh suggestions uh could you uh could you give them?
SPEAKER_00:We know that travel is not an easy space. We are not blind to that. We know there's a lot of players, there's a lot of big players. Optimism and resiliency is a huge thing for entrepreneurs. Um you will get the door shut in your face a number of times, and you will get told no more times than you than you wish to ever have. We personally want to be supportive of the ecosystem, and that's why not only do we want to benefit the customer, we want to benefit the airlines and any adjacent tools um that exist. So, I mean, to to your question, if there are any entrepreneurs that are looking to dive into this space, we have many conversations um with adjacent companies, whether that's conversations of integration or just some um some thought and hindsight. You know, we we we bring on some young team members as well because we love the idea of nurturing and growing talent outside of our own. You know, sometimes some of the best ideas come from fresh new entrepreneurial ideas, and sometimes they come from fixing old archaic methods. Um so we're we're here for entrepreneurs if there's an element, um uh if there's an element if somebody wants to reach out, then um yeah, we're here, we're here for it.
SPEAKER_01:This has been really fascinating, Jason. And thank you for walking us through your uh technology, the vision behind payback, and and what lies ahead. You made some good teasers on on some of the stuff. So for listeners that are eager to try payback, where should they start? And and how uh can they follow your uh work and and uh the roadmap that you are uh are looking and are talking about?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so registration right now is uh online, payback.app. That's pa i b-a-c.ap. You can also follow us on all the social channels, LinkedIn. Um, if you want to follow me personally, uh Jason Lucking, L-U-C-K-I-N-G on LinkedIn as well. And you can see both my entrepreneurial journey as well as payback's journey on there. And as you may have potentially heard in the background as well, I have two beautiful young girls who uh one and four, who are our entire world. Um, and and we we do this as well, as much for them because we want them to see the world. You know, I I we don't get our children birthday gifts, we take them on traveling trips because we think that the importance of experience is so key to civilization and culturally for us to be better than than this divisive element. Because the more the world we see, the more we realize we're all just made of the same stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Thank you again for for joining us. And we're wishing you and and the payback team uh a good continued success. Uh and to audience, um, yeah. I hope you'll give the payback a try. Uh, we definitely uh are very eager to try it, uh, and also to see what uh what uh comes next. Uh we'll definitely follow payback uh from uh from uh from now on and then continue to uh we'll monitor you uh in as well uh and then uh see what comes out of that. Not with AI yet, but maybe we should put some AI stuff on uh on that part as well. Thank you, Jason. And uh and and let's uh let's let's keep in touch on uh what happens in the next uh three to six months.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, definitely. And again, I'd love to do a I'd love to do a follow up and let you know where we've gone, where we've grown, and uh you know keep keep you on this journey with us.